[XCSSA] ROEI: Ethanol vs. ADM vs. Return on Energy Investment vs. PHILL

[xcssa@xcssa.org]

>> Crop-based fuels are just one facet of a multi-pronged approach to
>> weaning the
>> world off of petroleum. Think of it this way - petroleum fuels
>> right now use up
>> carbon without returning anything to the earth. Crop-based fuels
>> are nearly zero
>> in carbon use since most of the byproducts can go right back into
>> the earth for
>> the next batch.
>
> That would be true if the crops and processing didn't require any
> carbon-based inputs.  However, current ethanol production from corn
> uses carbon-based diesel for farming and transport, and other fuels
> (typically natural gas) for processing and distillation.  According
> to some studies (Pimental and others) more carbon-based energy is
> used in producing ethanol than there is energy in the ethanol itself.

I agree with corn-based ethanol and a couple of others. I didn't dig into
ethanol production. In fact, I personally favor bio-diesel over bio-ethanol
since burning bio-diesel gives an increase of about 2 to 3 more MPG versus a
decrease in MPG when using ethanol over gasoline, plus there is a higher return
on energy. Clear as mud? However, I must concede that the US will not give up
gasoline engines, therefore we need the ethanol alternative to displace at least
some amount of petroleum.

> Natural gas.  There is not enough surplus natural gas in North
> America for significant transportation use.  Some sources say it has
> already peaked in North America, so supply is falling, and it already
> has many uses, such as keeping people warm in winter.  It could be
> imported from other countries where it is in surplus.  But some of
> those countries might not want to sell, and nobody wants an LPG port
> either.

Also, you cannot compress natural gas enough to make it a viable alternative.

>> For electricity, yes. Don't think I'll be attaching a windmill to
>> the top of my
>> car or solar panels on the roof anytime soon since I wouldn't get
>> very far. I
>> want my air conditioning and my loud radio, and those alternative
>> sources
>> wouldn't cut it. :)
>
> Yes, but whenever I park my Vehicle-to-Grid Plug-In-Hybrid or
> electric car, I charge up from the local solar panels or wind farms.
> Plus, I get an extra low electricity cost because I allow the grid to
> tap my batteries during peak electricity grid demands.  I program it
> to ensure I will have enough juice for my next trip.

> Electric vehicles are already practical for many if not most people.
> Some now have ranges up to 200 miles between charges.  (With plug-in
> hyrbids you can use electricity mostly, but have fuel backup when
> needed.)  And there are many new promising battery technologies that
> may do even better.   GM killed the mainstream EV-1 (which used plain
> old lead acid batteries), but there are many interesting EV's now in
> limited production; something for everyone, super high performance or
> super economy, take your pick.
>
> Electricity can be made from just about anything, including renewable
> sources, and transported.  It can even be stored (batteries, hydro
> storage, etc.)

I can see that working. Yes, I was being facicious.