[XCSSA] ROEI: Ethanol vs. ADM vs. Return on Energy Investment vs. PHILL

[xcssa@xcssa.org]

I'm still looking at your bio-D links..

> I personally disagree with that conclusion, though. Since diesel engines
> have greater torque than gasoline engines, they are better suited for large
> rigs and locomotives, and diesel doesn't explode under "normal"
> circumstances. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you could make it explode under the
> right situation, but you catch my drift. From what I read, diesel engines
> are a bit more effecient than gasoline engines, hence a HUGE increase in
> fuel mileage over gasoline engines.

Don't get me wrong.. I love diesel engine technology over gas.  It has more 
torque, and engines last 2-4 times longer than gas engines.  I just don't see 
internal combustion as the future.. that's all.  We can get higher 
efficiencies through other forms of energy->motion conversion.

> Diesel engines are around to stay, and 

Oh.. I know that on the industrial side.. they make sense.. (for now).. but I 
don't think that we should be pushing consumers down that road.  Don't we 
want to try to get the masses away from all forms of hydrocarbon combustion?


> Also, commercial bio-diesel has much less to do with chicken grease and
> used french-fry oil and more to do with using different plants (even waste
> product as well). 

Again.. I think going back to an agrarian based system is a bad call.  
Especially with the various forms of monoculture and GM crops that this 
strategy would push us towards.

Solar is just so darn clean.  Why insert the inefficiencies of 
solar+nitrogen+water->plant->fermentation->processing->shipment->users  when 
you can just go 100% solar->users? (not possible right now.. but we're 
getting there)


> For electricity, yes. Don't think I'll be attaching a windmill to the top
> of my car or solar panels on the roof anytime soon since I wouldn't get
> very far. I want my air conditioning and my loud radio, and those
> alternative sources wouldn't cut it. :)

If they can get solar cells to 50% efficiency, you may be able to get a couple 
of kWh of energy out of automotive solar body panels some day.  In full sun 
light, you could charge your car while in work all day. (this is just off the 
top of my head mind you.. I haven't actually done any calculations on surface 
area, exposure angles, KWh, etc).  But now that I poke around google a bit 
more.. I found an owner who's doing something similar with his EVs:
http://www.evnut.com/solar.htm

Forget bio anything for commuter transportation. :)

Now the AC.. Yeah. that's a bit of an power sucker.  But I bet with an EV, you 
could do some creative stuff with evaporative chilling for AC.. Almost for 
free (energy wise).

Any by the way Charles.. NPR doesn't exactly have a lot of "low end" BOOM-BOOM 
to it.. ;) hehe

Tweeks